Kitties!
Mommy here, just having a cuddle with Johnny--he's purring up a storm!
It's very soothing, which I REALLY need. Because we have a problem here at the Katnip Lounge.
Do you notice anything missing in this photo?
There's no carpeting!
It's modular, and we had to take it up to clean it thoroughly, scrub the floor, wipe down the furniture, and wash down the walls.
Because we have a sprayer in the house.
AND a pee-er.
*sigh*
Sweet Pea and May Ling have never gotten along, and their feud had progressed to constant stalking and harassment. They seem to switch off on being the aggressor/victim, whatever takes their fancy. May Ling is intimidated and pees outside the box(es), and Sweet Pea sprays everything she can to mark things as "hers". And naturally, now the rest of the crowd thinks it's fair game to follow suit.
*double sigh*
Here's what we've tried so far:
Feliway--didn't work
Calming collars--didn't work
Boundary spray--didn't work
We've added three new litterboxes in the primary hot spots, and the perpetrators have been to the vet to rule out any medical problems. Sweet Pea has started on amitrypteline for a month to see if it helps with the spraying/anxiety/aggression. We had her on Clomicalm with no positive results--I was so disappointed because that helped Maui 100% to calm down and stop spraying (and he was terrible!). We are making a point to play with both of them and give them plenty of love and attention; but it's so discouraging to find a new puddle or dribble.
HELP!
Our goal is to keep everybody...but we are at wit's end. Sequestering isn't feasible with our house's open floor plan, so that's out as an option. I hate having to drug our furkids, but if that's what it takes to break the cycle, so be it. We are open to all suggestions...and I'd love to know what y'all use to clean up pee.
Fortunately, today was a good day--no confrontations and only one tiny spray. Sweet Pea slept with me last night and May Ling had a huge play session today. The Horde is happy. One step at a time...
Happy Thursday!
XX Momkat Trish XX
I so sorry about ur problem. Mom and Dad take me for a lot of walkies, which helps me. Maybe u could try? Kthx. :)
ReplyDeleteI am sorry but the publicist says she has not had this problem. The Farm cats either get along or ignore each other. All the other cats in her life have gotten along.
ReplyDeleteShe wishes she could help. She hopes something works out. Maybe you could get a goat. THAT would shake everyone up
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWish I could help! The only thing I know you could try with any that are not using the box is Cat Attract but I don't think it would work with the spraying.
ReplyDeleteThe stinkers, hope you can figure out something soon.
Sally, the mom of Two Fine Wires, saturates the stain with water then poors hydrogen peroxide on the spot. She then blots until almost dry. She recommends testing the carpet first before using the hydrogen peroxide.
This remedy would be worth a try.
Hi Trish,
ReplyDeleteWe did have an issue with Nellie spraying when Kozmo came home. We switched where the litter box and the food dishes were! Of course we had to put up boards to keep the dogs out of the bathroom (as that was where the litter box was) and I had to get used to the litter box in the kitchen, but it worked! I was really surprised. But we only had the 2 cats and the 1 box and the one feeding dishes. You have a much larger situation. After she stopped for 2 weeks, we moved everything back. Surprisingly she has quit shredding the sofa too!
Good Luck
Nellies Mom
My human says this is the reason she keeps a three cats maximum rule here, because the more cats that live together, the greater the chances are that two of them will have serious enough issues to start acting out. But even though she has managed to avoid the problem (so far!), she is wondering something that she hopes might be helpful: are there specific areas where the skirmishes (and peeing and spraying behavior) are more likely to occur? And is it possible to add more vertical and/or hiding space to that area - cat shelves or something else where one kitty can get away from the other? I know there is TONS of vertical space in the catio but I don't know if I have have seen much of that sort of thing in the rest of the house. I think the way to deal with this problem, since they can't be separated from each other, may be to find a way for them to have kitty-friendly space that one or the other can claim as hers. Just a thought.
ReplyDeleteMomkat Trish, I'm sorry this is happening and wish it was as simple with cats as it is with dogs who can be trained to go where they are supposed to with treats or praise. I haven't had to deal with this problem so have no solutions but I wish I did! It seems like it's becoming habit so maybe there's a way to disrupt the routine and break the habit. Easier said than done I know. Good luck! Sharla
ReplyDeleteWe've had this problem too, and never really solved it. Feliway, Rescue Remedy, pheromones, nothing worked, so don't waste your money! Amitrypteline made kitty a sleepy space cadet and they still didn't get along. We kept Julie & Mica Moo apart by stacking 3 baby gates on top of each other until Julie bulldozed through them. If they don't think of that or if you put up ones that nail in, gates may work, but gates are a pain. Now they stay on different sides of closed doors and they still try to kill each other from under the doors. I think sometimes cats just decide they hate each other, and that's that. Its interesting that Sweet Pea & Julie are both all white and May Ling & Mica Moo are both tortie Siamese mix. Good luck, this is really difficult! I'm interested to see what others have to say.
ReplyDeletehttp://cats.about.com/cs/behavioralissues/a/aggression_cats.htm
ReplyDeleteI volunteer at a no-kill shelter and use Nature's Miracle. I've been happy with this enzyme product. It can be purchased in jugs, too. I've used Bissell Pet Stain & Odor Remover at home. However, I've only used it on cat barf.
I hope you'll find something that works for your cats in the article.
Sending efurrybuddy hugs and pets and good vibes. I wish I had something more useful to offer.
ReplyDeleteXOXO sweet girls. Maybe Spitty needs to come work his ladycat magic, heh heh.
Such a difficult problem. I think what you've tried would be the things we would suggest. I guess you could always try an animal communicator--it worked with Chey so that she didn't keep peeing on the bed after Ichiro. I don't know that all cats would be that easy to convince.
ReplyDeleteOh dear. My mom can certainly empathize. She doesn't know what to tell you, though. Pee stopped peeing on the carpet, but Mom's pretty sure her troubles began with a dog, has never left her little brain and can be triggered by stress. Pee does pee only on her special mat now and once in a blue moon in the box (rare).
ReplyDeleteWe've used Nature's Miracle on carpet but there's still residual smell, probably because the pee soaked right through to the subfloor. Mom's dad swore by Right Guard--the deodorant, believe it or not--after his cat peed in his car. (Mom does not like the smell of that either and can't vouch for this "fix"!)
We've had issues but admit that our biggest problem was solved when Madison and Cecilia moved into our workshop. Madison was a huge pee-er and Cecilia aggravates Ginger and Bennette...but Madison and Cecilia get along great.
ReplyDeleteAs for the others...all is not peaceful in our house 100% of the time but we have a "closed" concept house and all of the rooms can close off from each other so we can have time outs if we need them. In the past when mom had a major pee issue with our guardian angel Mikey ::bows head in honor::, mom used a animal behaviorist who solved the problem...turns out it was Figgy's intact grandfather who was the instigator just by walking by our window!
We will purr that you can figure out a solution.
Cory
Have you tried Tulipspet INstant Odor Eliminator? Dr Chan who blogs myanimalcare.org tried this - good luck
ReplyDeletehttp://myanimalcare.org/2011/10/my-plan/
Oh man, that's a tough situation! Scarlett misses the litterbox sometimes and I usually use Nature's Miracle to clean it up. I've heard that NM doesn't work on soft surfaces, though. I think there's a Nature's Miracle cleaner that includes a repellent so that the cat is less likely to pee in that spot again. I have a friend whose cat sprays indiscriminately all over her tiny studio apartment, and she scrubs the whole thing down with bleach. That's not the most pet or environmentally friendly option, though. You said that sequestering isn't feasible, but is there a way to give the trouble makers some designated nooks? I think that is helpful for Scarlett and Melly - they each have their own spots to retreat to - but then, there are only two of them.
ReplyDeleteGood luck!! Keep us posted!
That's sounds like Leo and Star, they take turns being the aggressor. It drives me crazy!
ReplyDeleteWhen Star started peeing upstairs we fought against putting a litter pan up there. There's just no space for it. But that's the only way we could stop her from peeing on the floor, putting a box in the spot. It's now the most popular box in the house and that drives us even crazier!
We're replacing the carpet, but the pee gets through to the wood. Killz paint will stop the odor from coming through, but that might not work for you as that doesnt look like a floor you would want to paint.. Our painted area will be under the new carpet.
I wish wish wish we could talk them into being best friends.. but when it comes to this issue, they don't speak English.. Funny that they know what 'treat' means..
I wish you luck and if anything works for you, let me know too!
Perhaps the "Ultimate Peacekeeper" set from Spirit Essences by Jackson Galaxy (cat behaviorist and Animal Planet's cat daddy)can help?
ReplyDeleteI've never had more than one cat at a time, so I'm afraid I'm no help at all. How very frustrating for you tho. I do hope one of the other readers will have a solution for you that works.
ReplyDeleteI only did pee pee's when I was little outside the box. Simba has never sprayed either so we can't offer any advise. I bet you will soon have loads of useful tips to help though :)xxxx
ReplyDeleteWe are so sorry to hear you are having this problem. We hope something suggested here will help. Maybe some new doors are needed. Purring for things to work out.
ReplyDeleteAhem, Zippy pees outside da box...a lot! It makes daddy say stuff like "I'm gonna move her to the garage" and "If she does it again, she's moving to the garage". But, she still does it and now dey know dat it's 'cuz Speedy looks at her in da litter box and she hasta leave and do her bizness in da corner. Mom started using Rug Doctor Urine Eliminator, she sprays the pee spot, covers it with a damp towel (they recomend keeping it damp for 24 hours), the towel helps to keep us kitties offa da spot, and den WALAH, no more stinky, no more stain. Mom also tries to make sure she keeps Speedy outta da way when Zippy tries to use da litter box. She yells at daddy to do it too. But, we do not know how to make Zippy use da litter box when somecat is watching her.
ReplyDeleteTrish, we can't add anything--you've had great suggestions, especially liked Sparkle's idea.
ReplyDeleteTo be honest, if our mom had to deal with this every day, SHE'D need drugs to keep her calm. (Wait, she does anyway. Haha.)
We're sending you all purrs, though, and asking the universe to resolve this situation for the Highest Good of All Concerned.
These are always hard issues. At one time, Tama-Chan and Sei-Chan were gracing our floors but spaying solved that problem. #1 says she seems to remember reading quite a bit about these issues in the book "The Cat Who Cried For Help" by Nicholas H. Dodman. There was also a serious problem at one time with the Gray Boys over at http://ggwg.wordpress.com/ so you might try asking Barb about that.
ReplyDeletePaws crossed for a solution!
Katnip Lounge Mum, Trish!!
ReplyDeleteMy December issue to come of "Your Cat" magazine will be addressing this issue of "How to Manage a Houseful of Cats"! I can't wait to get it now so I'd share the advice!
http://www.yourcat.co.uk/Printed-Magazine/your-cat-december-2011-issue.html
Hugs and purrs to May Ling and Sweet Pea!! Awwww - the most kitties I've had at one time was 5 and it was all me and my family could do to cope - I think that's why I'm sticking to one cat per lifetime now cos it was difficult for me - I do know in hindsight that at least two of my kitties in the 5 were very stressed - my Ol Girl overgroomed and always tried to leave and my sweet little Biff just withdrew into himself. Poor little guy! But at that time (and even now) I was and am completely clue-less!
Purrs and hugs!
Take care
x
Oh dear me. Have you tried steam cleaning the floor, carpets and walls? That is supposed to sanitize and remove most odors without chemicals. Or you could, at the last resort, alternate Sweet Pea and May Ling in Daddy's spanking new office, at least for the sake of YOUR sanity.
ReplyDelete(Sigh) I feel for you I really do. Scylla was spraying our bed. The Feliway seems to be working for her. Bissell Carpet Cleaner for Pets works wonders on cleaning up the mess from mattresses and carpet.
ReplyDeleteSorry I can't think of any solutions. Would it be possible to keep one in a bedroom alone for awhile?
We are purraying for a solution.
ReplyDeletexxxxxxx
that sounds awful. hopefully there will be peace in the valley soon...
ReplyDeleteWhen I had a very aged cat who would miss the box at times, or not feel good enough to get in, I got some plastic carpet protector sheets and put them around the box, and a small throw rug/carpet scrap to put next to the box on the sheeting to minimize the cleaning up. I still use it now because the enegetic diggers toss litter all over and I can sweep it up with a hand broom.
ReplyDeleteThe only stress reliever I can think of is the more vertical space option in the crisis areas just to reduce the conflicts.
Mom says she feels your pain.
ReplyDeleteWe had an old spot on the stairs and Nature's Miracle is taking it out....it is taking a few tries, but it is working.
Ivy and Spud have some agression issues that mom is getting frustrated with. Our v-e-t said she hasn't had much luck with Feliway either (and mom is afraid it would turn mellow Mo into a mummy). She also suggested more vertical space....something mom is thinking about. Sparkle made the same suggestion.
Good luck....
That's a bad problem. Sometimes us kittehs use our pees in a bad way. Mom hopes you find a fix for this issue.
ReplyDeleteGood clean up ideas with the enzyme cleaners & all. Scout intimidates Scooby when he uses the box. Sometimes he'll hide behind something then pounce at him. Scooby was using the far end of the basement to poop (but not pee). I solved that easily by putting another litter box way back there for him & he felt safe then.
ReplyDeleteBut your real issue is that they don't get along and pee because of that. More cat trees in the common space might help, you never know. Other than that you may have to go with physical separation like someone else suggested. And thats hard for you and the cats.
We sure hope you can find a solution because we would really like to know what it is. We have the same problem here. In fact, I won't let the boys in and they immediately start peeing on everything. I am trying that composure on one of cats and am going to try to bring him in tonight. I have a feeling, once the smell is in there, it is hard to get rid of it. I do use a cleaner with lemon in it in hopes that they won't pee in that spot again. I read that somewhere. Good luck. Hope you can figure it out.
ReplyDeleteWhile we don't have any answers for you, some of the stuff at this link might help:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.love-and-hisses.com/?m=20110811
She fosters and has lots of kitties, so maybe if you search the site you might be able to fond other suggestions that might help Sweet Pea and May-Ling calm down.
We will be purring for things to calm down.
Oh Trish, this is a serious problem..I know you know that of course. I wish I had something to offer. Goodness knows they have enough litter places to use..I have seen that and usually in smaller homes with fewer cats, the number of litter boxes is the problem. I know yiu have to keep them cleaned out. I wish I knew what to do.
ReplyDeleteWe're sorry you're going through this. First, we want to say that you have done a GREAT job so far, and have done everything we would have tried (adding boxes, ruling out medical issues, etc. etc.)
ReplyDeleteHave you tried Rescue Remedy?
Our favorite enzymatic cleaner has been discontinued, and we haven't found an acceptable substitute. Nature's Miracle is ok, but pricey.
Please remember that if you need to medicate one or two of the cats, it's ok. Sometimes it's all you have left after exhausting every other option. Hugs to you and the gang.
If Clomicalm and amitriptyline aren't doing the trick, you might try fluoxetine (generic for Prozac). It worked for my Riley and was on the $4/30 pills list at Target.
ReplyDeleteEven with all our cats we have not had the peeing issue but we have tried it all on our aggressive Albert! Even amitrypline (sp?) but he was just attacking in slow motion. A friend said to try Composure by Vetri-Science and I think this is working!!! SO far Al is mellow and calm - it has colostrum, Vit B1 and theanine. We use one a day for Al. When I get a new order I can send youa trial few so you don't spend more money on something that doesn't work. I sent some to Marg too.
ReplyDeleteWe have that problem with Mitalee.It started when she was five (out of the blue it seemes!) so we thought medical problem but no.She just does it off and on for no apparent reason.we tried everyting too.You've done all the right things so far Trish.Maybe medicating for a brief time could "change their ideas" and mellow things out.I'm sending you plenty of hugs because I know how frustrating it is to give your ALL to their happiness and flareups still occur.Poor :( I think Cats from WildCats might have a temporary solution.Feliway and all that other stuff(calming collars etc.) never worked for us and can get costly.
ReplyDeleteDrop by and see what's new at our place.It will make you smile a bit :)
LP and the critters in The Cottage xo
Oh me Katnip Lounge Mom/Dad...we are sorry but all we can offer is lots of moral support. You have surpassed our feline expertise of 2kitties.
ReplyDeleteBig Hugs
Madi and Mom
So sorry you're having such trouble. : ( Glogirly and I don't have much experience with this. Purrs to you while you try to figure out the best solution.
ReplyDeleteIt took some coaxing, but Glogirly finally got Chapter 13 up, so be sure to stop by!
xo Katie
I sure hope someone suggest just the right idea. Sorry we are no help.
ReplyDeleteOh! I´m so sorry about this problem. I´m purrying to you find a great idea!!!
ReplyDeleteKisses
WE have this problem.
ReplyDeleteWe have tried all the things you have tried with the exception of drugging the problem child (Ping). He has sprayed the couch so much that there isn't too much I can do but replace it. I have blocked access to the area that he uses and put down those training pads to catch the puddles. That works. I also have where Abby will NOT share the litterboxes. We finally came to agreement. I would put training pads down for her and she would use them, and she gets clean ones every single time she uses one. She agreed. I was so glad about that. I don't know what the answer is Trish, I wish I did. I know Ping is spraying as his form of reassurance, he has always been so fearful. I know his former owner must have abused him and he still feels that victimization. So as hard as it has been I don't get mad at him.
*sigh*
xoxoxo
The Mom
we dont have any idea
ReplyDeletebut we purray hard that mommy Trish problems will be solve soon
hey kitties,pls help your mom!!!
BoBo Salem, ChaCha, Sachi, Kochie and Oren
Meow Meow Family
Normally i would say spray away... but it sounds like all you kitties have gone too far. Shame on you. Mommy wonders if lemon juice would help with the cleaning. She thinks it smells yummy and hides odors well. And if she doesn't have to use a whole lemon, she can make some lemonade and relax.
ReplyDeleteTrish, I use Nature's Remedy on the carpet with pretty good results. A vinegar solution works, too. I also like my Spot Bot cleaner and use the Bissell Pet Stain remover in it. It works excellently on puke and poop spots in three minutes. I take the clean water tank off and do a second "cleaning" to suck more water out of the carpet. Somebody got an upholstered chair in the living room today and a liberal spraying of my vinegar water solution worked amazingly well. No urine smell after it dried. I use it on all hard surfaces that get peed on. About 1/2 c vinegar in a spray bottle of water, with a half tsp of dish soap added last. I also add half a cup or so of vinegar to the washer when I do cat laundry.
ReplyDeleteWe're having some major issues right now with a few fosters. I now have four cats in three rooms that will never be allowed out into the house. Very sad, but very necessary. I need kitty Prozac by the quart.
Trish, you've gotten some great advice so far. I had a cat that sprayed and I used a product called Anti-Icky Poo and it worked well. Urine is a tough one, though, as you know.
ReplyDeleteI sure wish I had a answer for you on how to stop the aggressive behavior. If I did, I'd be rich! Have you thought about consulting an animal behaviorist? I've been dealing with Wally and Zoey not getting along, and have to keep them separated. Good luck. I hope Sweat Pea and May Ling call a truce soon.
Island Cats' mom
Oh Dear Mom Trish, You KNOW I have this problem with Ms. Stella & Scrappy. I will tell you that the ONLY cleaner I have used that actually worked is Anti Icky Poo. Yes, that is it's name and it's available on Amazon. Make sure you get the giant syringe to inject into fabric things like carpet, padding, sofas, etc. The giant syringe (I'm talking GIANT ASS SYRINGE) makes a great intimidation tool when you eyeball the purrrrpetrators! No, it doesn't stop them peemailing their grievances but it absolutely eliminates the odor.
ReplyDeleteAs a Bengal Foster mom I had a male Bengal who sprayed in one area of my bedroom continually. It got so bad I couldn't sleep in that room from the ammonia smell. Not kidding! When the Anti Icky Poo arrived I was a maniac & sprayed the walls, baseboards & then per the instructions, injected the carpet & pad every so many inches. Within HOURS the smell had dissipated enough I could return to the room. After it was all clean for a couple days, I reintroduced Aspen to the bedroom & he was fine.
But I must say this, his problem was a territory thing based on scent (of the other cats in the house he couldn't see but he could smell).
Stella & Scraps just hate each other. No way around that. But the solution (AIP) has solved them ruining the carpets with scent. I would encourage you to check out Teri over at the Furry Dance Cattery for help as well. If you don't follow her blog or have her email I'm happy to share.
best fishes for you
warm purrrrs
deep breath's and the art of zen
xoxo
That Woman
Hiya Trish! Do you remember us? You were so kind to post our problem to the kitties out there regarding our newbie cat Scootch and uh our um not so welcoming reaction to his arrival and such. Things seem better at times but then the girls like to hiss at Scootch whenever he walks through the living room to get to the food and water. Three days ago after they were a hissin he walked into the main bedroom and went after Jake and bit him on the back. He'll take out is agression on the nearest cat when others aren't being welcoming.
ReplyDeleteWe moved to a new home. There is a resident stray that likes to stir things up. His name is Tux. Mom would love to adopt him, but she only confessed to the landlady to having 3 cats when it's really 4. A 5th would be too many. Also Tux was left behind by a former tenant and he's a known sprayer. Still Mr. Tux seems to be needing a hoo-ha-ectomy.
Scootch has taken to peeing outside the box at our new place. He does really well when I use Cat Attract litter. But I keep on trying cheaper brands. Right now he seems to be ok with unscented Arm and Hammer.
My absolute favorite pee-remover is Anti-Icky-Poo (I've tried them ALL!). They sell a carpet injector that really seems to work. Get a good black light so you can stay on top of it. Best of luck to your girls working out their differences so they can stop the peeing and spraying. It sure is a pain. PS I see lots of cat trees on Craigslist in case you still want another. I've been meaning to get a couple more myself. I'm also interested in those cat shelves that they sell.